Hammer-ons and Pull-offs

[sapetersr]

ok, do you have msn or something? that would be better. I emulate the game with pcsx2.

[Seafoo]

HOPOs in GH2 are applied to notes that are placed on sixteenths, I'm not sure about the GH1 HOPO mechanics though. Hope this information is found to be useful.

[R4L]

*sigh* It sounds so easy in my head, but I know that it is a different story when coding. Hopefully you'll work something out! Keep FoF alive!

[dOb]

HOPO is calculated by some formula for the space between the notes. I have NO idea what that is. It's not documented anywhere. I need to reverse engineer that formula. The best way to do that is for someone to give me some notated examples on how GH1/GH2 does it.

Hiteck says the HOPO notes are marked in the MIDI files in GH, there's no formula.

[Clayman]

dOb, I doubt this, there is simply no reason to manually mark every note when a programm can do it as well and pretty well:)

[nobby76]

i dont know it this is any help to you guys, but ive been messing around with the mdi files for some of the GH2 songs and ive noticed, as well as having the 2 or 3 instrument tracks for lead bass and rhythm guitar, you also get an Instrument track called "triggers" and another called "events", Perhaps the HOPO information is stored somewhere in them tracks?

Hope this is some help to some one

[sapetersr]

those tracks are for the movements of the band that plays the songs in the background of GH.

http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1179

The info is there.

[chernobyl]

There is a formula for HOPO, and it's very simple. It follows 3 basic rules.

1) Notes at least 1/4 beat apart must be strummed.
2) Notes of the same color consecutively must be strummed regardless of timing.
3) Chords must be strummed regardless of position, timing, or color.

Therefore:

Any note that is less than 1/4 beat after another note or chord, and is a different color, is eligible for HOPO.

Example 1: The sequence G-R-Y-G, in 1/8 beats, would allow HOPO on R-Y-G.
Example 2: The chord [GY], with a R note 1/8 beat later, would allow HOPO on the R note.
Example 3: The chord [GY], with a G note 1/8 beat later would not allow HOPO since G was a consecutive color.

In GH2, to do a HOPO simply requires that you tap the correct fret button just-in-time. (GH1 was much stricter, requiring that you hold the previous note until just-in-time as well.) There is a 'fudge factor' of about 1/16 beat in GH2, but GH1 requires it spot-on.

Hope this helps! I play both games a lot, so hopefully I can answer any questions about game mechanics.

[Rogue_F]

Your forumula is not correct.

That's pretty much what I started with. Anything less than 1/4 of a note is HOPO.
#2 and #3 are correct as well but that's not all of it. I started with these three basic assumptions but realized they are not correct.

Some additions.

The next HOPO note must be 1 note away from the last HOPO note.

(this one i am unsure about) you must have at least 3 notes which qualify for HOPO for them to be HOPO (I've never seen a 2 note HOPO)
If there's no note within (my guess is 1/4 of a beat) Then you must start HOPO over.

I'm sure there's a few more rules I have not discovered yet.

Since your 'simple formula' is not accurate It's obvious you don't actually know, just like I didn't actually know when I started.. I came up with those simple rules a long time ago, but I also realized that they are NOT complete. Thus working examples would help me figure out the rest of the stuff. So far only one person has stepped up to that.

Thanks sapstrsr.

-Alex

[bugmenot_X]

(this one i am unsure about) you must have at least 3 notes which qualify for HOPO for them to be HOPO (I've never seen a 2 note HOPO)

This one is wrong, look at Message In A Bottle (The Police). There's a solo on Hard (and probably Expert) where the fourth fret is strummed and immediately hammered-on to the fifth fret. I know several other songs in GH2 have this, but off the top of my head, I can only name Killing in the Name Of.

[Rogue_F]

sapetersr has provided me with a number of videos which will help. And some of them do have the 2 note one. So I'm going to try to make it match that.

One thing I do know, the converted GH1 and GH2 songs BPM's are usually not correct. So a new set of .mid files may need to be generated.

-Alex

[kyleaiken]

I hope this is done in the next release. I strummed the freebird solo. =(

[JKlemz]

I think most songs with solos from GH are impossible to play (well, at least with a common keyboard+human fingers) on the "hardest" awesome setting without hammer-on/pull-offs. I play the guitar, and yesterday I was trying to play YYZ on FOF (I can play it, well, slightly dirty, on the guitar), and it's impossible to do it on the keyboard! I'm hoping for a MOD to implement that...

[JKlemz]

Sorry to re-post, I can't edit yet...

In addition to HOPO, there is a number of songs that, in real life, have "bended" notes. For those without a clue what that is about, bend is when you "pull" or "lift" the string, increasing tension and changing the note in a smooth way, without really "changing" your finger position (different from HOPO, where the transition is "harsh and quick"). Most of these are represented by a single, longer than usual note, on easier modes and by two very close notes (one a quick tap, the other a longer note). For an example, take MANY notes from Freebird (wich was mentioned before on this topic), and the 2 first notes on Ace of Spades (a personal favourite).

SOME of these are possible to do, like the ones on Ace of Spades, but many are simply unrealistically hard. I believe HOPO implementation would help a lot in these cases too, as if you could "hammer on" the longer note of the bend.

I believe this would add a lot to the playing experience without screwing up the game dynamics, if well coded...

[R4L]

Thats all well and all, but you see the problem here is actually coding it. I think Rogue would like suggestions or ideas.