HOPO - New Hammer On/Pull Off thread

[Rogue_F]

Darn I meant 'thread' not 'threat'

So I've been working on the HOPO support for the next version of RF-mod (coming soon to a theater near you) and I'm actually doing my second implementation since I did not like the first.

I've discovered a few things.

1) When playing normally usually you do not press the frets and the strum at the same time. You usually press the frets first in anticipation and then strum at (hopefully) the right time.

This leads to some difficulty (which GH1/2 suffers as well) where you may not be intending to do a hopo and you just want to strum, but since youpress the frets first that counts as your HOPO so you hit the note, but then you strum it and it counts as a miss since you already hit that note.

I believe I can try to fix this problem by adding a slight fudge factor so if you HOPO a note, and then strum within a few miliseconds of it it won't count as a miss. This may be easier than GH but I think it's better. Unfortunately I'm not sure if it can be abused.


2) I've been using my own custom created song and GH1 and GH2 to test the HOPO parts. This seems to be going well, but....When using songs people have made in the community I am getting quite mixed results. This is because the ones made by the community aren't always 100% accurate or consistent and the BPM is usually never correct. This leads to to many or too few HOPO, and sometimes even in a place where there should be a nice HOPO run, one or two notes are not because they are slightly farther apart than the others.

So for this I'm thinking maybe some per song tag to enable HOPO, so it's not enabled on everything by default. This would mean for GH1 or GH2 that the song.ini might need to be edited if you want HOPO enabled (maybe I can autodetect this).

Another option is to have an actual thing in the midi to turn on hammer on and pull off. I believe the freetar editor does this, but when it's translated by the online tools it all goes away. This would make it easy for song creators to use the freetar editor, but they could not use the converter anymore (I was going to write one into the game anyway). Another bad thing is that the GH1/2 songs would obviously not have these things in the midi and would not work that way either.



Anyway in summary. The two problems I am currently seeing are:

1) HOPO enabling can make songs much harder to play
2) HOPO for homebrew songs is sketchy.

If anyone has any thoughts on these I'd like to hear them.

-Alex

[winniez]

I still don't understand all this anyway , keep good work

[mmsven]

I don't think it should be added if its going to cause problems and take up a large ammount of time to make it work right. Perhaps do some other stuff thats on your list?

[bugmenot_X]

From my personal experience in Guitar Hero 2, if you HOPO a note, and strum it within the hit window, the strum is ignored, the game acts like your either a) didn't strum or b) didn't HOPO.

[omganinja]

I think you should just have them turned on by default, then if people who want the currently made songs fixed to cater for HOPOs then they can do it themselves. Or have a trigger in options to turn them on and off.

Also, it would be great if you could change the viewing angle to make it more like the actual guitar hero, correct me if I'm wrong but that shouldnt be too hard.

[R4L]

Off topic: I disagree with the view change, only because of FoF's engine. It's so much faster than GH, and I think it makes really fast songs (Thunderhorse, The Breaking Wheel) easier to play when the view is above the fret board more.

On topic: There has to be some detection of the note when it hits the strum rectacle. Couldn't you use this to your advantage? I know nothing about Python, so please ignore me if I am not making any sense, but can't you use variables to determine whether the note is within the strum rectacle to solve your first problem?

For your second problem, the only way I would see a fix is if someone developed a different song editor, or the included editor let you switch between regular notes, and HOPO notes.

Sorry, it sounds easier than it looks. Hopefully you'll work something out.

[omganinja]

Off topic: I disagree with the view change, only because of FoF's engine. It's so much faster than GH, and I think it makes really fast songs (Thunderhorse, The Breaking Wheel) easier to play when the view is above the fret board more.

Well that's easily fixed too, slow it down. Go play Guitar Hero for a while, then come back and play FoF and see how retarded it feels / looks with the viewing angle.

[homerrulz]

I still don't understand all this anyway , keep good work

Me too

As I understand it, the idea behind HOPO is to enable the playing of the faster parts of songs.. ie not having to strum each note

I don't understand the proper use/rules governing HOPO.. but wouldn't it make sense to do something in FOF like:

1. Never allow HOPO during the same fret(s) being played (eg fret 1 being played rapidly)

2. Nullify the strumming during parts of a song where the different frets are played rapidly but ONLY if the notes appear within a certain time of each other (in other words super quick notes only).

when I say nullify strumming.. I mean, you can strum as much or little as you like.. but the only thing that registers a success/failure is the correct/incorrect fret presses.. not the strumming.

Not sure how easy this is to implement, but if possible - it should work for any song and make the really fast parts of songs actually possible to play

[omganinja]

homerrulz you basically just repeated what rogue_f has already said he's done, but in a dumbed down fashion.

[homerrulz]

homerrulz you basically just repeated what rogue_f has already said he's done, but in a dumbed down fashion.

errm ok.. looks like I REALLY didn't understand the post properly :p Thanks for clarifying.

anyway.. if he's already done all that - then great!
.. thats pretty much all I'd be after.

[omganinja]

homerrulz you basically just repeated what rogue_f has already said he's done, but in a dumbed down fashion.

errm ok.. looks like I REALLY didn't understand the post properly :p Thanks for clarifying.

anyway.. if he's already done all that - then great!
.. thats pretty much all I'd be after.

oh you are probably confused cause you havent read the other HOPO thread, am i correct?

heres a link to the other post were all the 'rules' and such for HOPOs were discussed. https://www.fretsonfire.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=4;t=1548

[homerrulz]

oh you are probably confused cause you havent read the other HOPO thread, am i correct?

Nope.. read the thread - confused the hell out of me.
(Thanks anyway)
I've never touched GH1 or GH2 so HOPO in that sense are lost on me..

I just think that really really fast notes should rely only on correct fret presses.. I don't think a special/different colored note is required.. and I don't think the player should be penalised for strumming during the faster parts if they choose too (hence nullify the strumming)

If this has already been done (or in the works) then great

I'm happy to stay confused on this subject though :p

[omganinja]

oh you are probably confused cause you havent read the other HOPO thread, am i correct?

Nope.. read the thread - confused the hell out of me.
(Thanks anyway)
I've never touched GH1 or GH2 so HOPO in that sense are lost on me..

I just think that really really fast notes should rely only on correct fret presses.. I don't think a special/different colored note is required.. and I don't think the player should be penalised for strumming during the faster parts if they choose too (hence nullify the strumming)

If this has already been done (or in the works) then great

I'm happy to stay confused on this subject though :p

haha, well if you do want to know exactly whats going on then downlaod yourself Guitar Zero, you'll notice the HOPOs straight away, and as for the notes being a different colour, its pretty much neccessary.

[omganinja]

Here we go, I took a screenshot of guitar zero and highlighted the HOPOs. See how they dont have the black circle around the top part.

[bealsy]

hopo's are one of the best parts of GH1 & 2 - I'm new of the new to FOF but its definitely something I can't wait to be implemented.

Loving FOF though - welcome to the jungle with my GH controller is rocking my world lol! Just have to sort out the A/V delay its still slightly out of sync with my controller and my LCD. Either that or I'm crap on FOF compared to GH