EOF 1.8RC12 - Now with Rocksmith 2014 support

A collection of helpful posts
Jpop fanatic
raynebc
Moderator
Posts: 5664
Joined: April 20th, 2008
Location: Megumi Island
Reputation: 110

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby raynebc » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:33 pm

I looked at the notes-unedited.mid file I have for "Panic Attack" and it has several mid-beat tempo and time signature changes. Rock Band Network documentation says Harmonix discourages people from defining a tempo change more often than once per beat because doing that is unnecessary. I'd like to know why it's necessary to change it between beats, I honestly see no benefit. Nonetheless, I'll make the tempo map storage logic a priority since there's no other choice for making pro guitar/harmony/keys upgrades.
aka drumbilical
User avatar
italianstal1ion
Member
Posts: 1342
Joined: July 28th, 2007
Location: Behind a drum set
Reputation: 51
Contact:

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby italianstal1ion » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:48 pm

Sorry to bother ya, but do we have a "feedback" controls option in EOF? Or mouse free controls? I tried the other ones and I think RexMundi is the closest.

Feedback uses just a 3D interface. (no need to remove 2D, just saying what feedback does)
UP and DOWN move the guide bar to the next measure, indicated by the grid snap
LEFT and RIGHT change the grid snap settings (left for bigger grid snap, right for smaller)
The guide bar is always locked with whatever grid snap is set to (if it is 1/8th, the guide bar will only move on 1/8th notes. Pressing UP or DOWN brings you to the next closest 1/8th measure)
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 places notes on the measure that the guide bar is located.
PGup and PGdown keys move forward or backward a whole measure (depending on the time signature of course).

Like I said, RexMundi is the closest but it still places notes based on the mouse instead of the guide bar. Even if I put the mouse on the guide bar, I still don't have much control of where the guide bar goes.

I can definitely make a video of this for you. I think if EOF had mouseless control I probably wouldn't ever use feedback again.
edit: video will be ready this evening
Index of all Drum Topics on the Forum in one convenient place
Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
Drum Project 7 Released!
Drum Project 8 Released!
Drum project 9 Released!!
Image My personal topic.
Can't get enough?

Spoiler:Image Feedback + EOF Pro Notation
Image Albelgim collaboration
If you appreciate my work and would like to see more, a donation would certainly motivate me! Thank you.
Image

Jpop fanatic
raynebc
Moderator
Posts: 5664
Joined: April 20th, 2008
Location: Megumi Island
Reputation: 110

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby raynebc » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:28 pm

All of the mouse-based input methods depend on the use of grid snap to place notes accurately, the mouse automatically snaps to the nearest grid interval. Originally there was an input method titled "Feedback", but it was removed because it didn't work correctly. I dug through some release notes in one of the old beta releases (1.8b25) where I'd mentioned that it turns out that the Enter key places gems at the current seek position if you are using the classic or hold input method. What's more, 1.8b18 added a seek to next/prev grid snap feature. This is probably just about enough for me to hack together another input method, I'd just need to create a seek to next/prev measure function. Would it be fine to set such an input method up so that left/right arrow did a free seek, since there are already separate keys to adjust the grid snap? The fewer keyboard controls I have to override, the easier this will be to add.
aka drumbilical
User avatar
italianstal1ion
Member
Posts: 1342
Joined: July 28th, 2007
Location: Behind a drum set
Reputation: 51
Contact:

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby italianstal1ion » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:59 pm

raynebc wrote:All of the mouse-based input methods depend on the use of grid snap to place notes accurately, the mouse automatically snaps to the nearest grid interval. Originally there was an input method titled "Feedback", but it was removed because it didn't work correctly. I dug through some release notes in one of the old beta releases (1.8b25) where I'd mentioned that it turns out that the Enter key places gems at the current seek position if you are using the classic or hold input method. What's more, 1.8b18 added a seek to next/prev grid snap feature. This is probably just about enough for me to hack together another input method, I'd just need to create a seek to next/prev measure function.

Well, I'm trying to avoid using the mouse. I know it snaps though. For Classic mode, that means you have to set what notes to place, then press Enter every time to confirm? Why not just have the notes place when you press the key?
raynebc wrote:Would it be fine to set such an input method up so that left/right arrow did a free seek, since there are already separate keys to adjust the grid snap? The fewer keyboard controls I have to override, the easier this will be to add.

What keys change the grid snap? I'd prefer feedback's controls, but I can get used to something else too.

I've made a video with all the important controls that I use on feedback if you would like to see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95V_3NwBxSs

Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks a bunch.
Index of all Drum Topics on the Forum in one convenient place
Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
Drum Project 7 Released!
Drum Project 8 Released!
Drum project 9 Released!!
Image My personal topic.
Can't get enough?

Spoiler:Image Feedback + EOF Pro Notation
Image Albelgim collaboration
If you appreciate my work and would like to see more, a donation would certainly motivate me! Thank you.
Image

Jpop fanatic
raynebc
Moderator
Posts: 5664
Joined: April 20th, 2008
Location: Megumi Island
Reputation: 110

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby raynebc » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:40 pm

The comma button decreases the grid snap denominator (grid intervals become larger) where the period button increases the grid snap denominator (grid intervals become smaller). From watching the video, I couldn't tell which of those two the left arrow key does in Feedback.
User avatar
NewCreature
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: November 23rd, 2006
Location: Murray, KY
Reputation: 3
Contact:

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby NewCreature » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:46 am

The problem with the Feedback input method is the work flow of a typical Feedback user is incompatible with EOF's standard work flow. Feedback users don't always create a tempo map before placing notes. A typical Feedback work flow involves making many tiny BPM adjustments after notes have already been placed. These tiny adjustments make it incompatible with EOF because EOF has to resnap the notes for every tiny adjustment. The note positions are rounded to the nearest millisecond and placement precision is lost.

Eventually EOF will be converted to work internally with MIDI-style note positioning (in MIDI ticks instead of milliseconds). When this happens, a fully working Feedback input method will be possible.
"Stop putting so much stock in all of this stuff, live your life for those that you love." - Relient K
EOF - A Song Editor for Frets On Fire
aka drumbilical
User avatar
italianstal1ion
Member
Posts: 1342
Joined: July 28th, 2007
Location: Behind a drum set
Reputation: 51
Contact:

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby italianstal1ion » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:32 am

raynebc wrote:The comma button decreases the grid snap denominator (grid intervals become larger) where the period button increases the grid snap denominator (grid intervals become smaller). From watching the video, I couldn't tell which of those two the left arrow key does in Feedback.

Left makes the intervals smaller, right makes them larger. (1/4th turns to 1/8th when you press RIGHT).
NewCreature wrote:The problem with the Feedback input method is the work flow of a typical Feedback user is incompatible with EOF's standard work flow. Feedback users don't always create a tempo map before placing notes. A typical Feedback work flow involves making many tiny BPM adjustments after notes have already been placed. These tiny adjustments make it incompatible with EOF because EOF has to resnap the notes for every tiny adjustment. The note positions are rounded to the nearest millisecond and placement precision is lost.

Eventually EOF will be converted to work internally with MIDI-style note positioning (in MIDI ticks instead of milliseconds). When this happens, a fully working Feedback input method will be possible.

I'm not sure I understand fully, but what you're saying is EOF uses millisecond snapping for notes while Feedback uses MIDI-style snapping? How difficult will it be to use MIDI-style positioning?
Index of all Drum Topics on the Forum in one convenient place
Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
Drum Project 7 Released!
Drum Project 8 Released!
Drum project 9 Released!!
Image My personal topic.
Can't get enough?

Spoiler:Image Feedback + EOF Pro Notation
Image Albelgim collaboration
If you appreciate my work and would like to see more, a donation would certainly motivate me! Thank you.
Image

Jpop fanatic
raynebc
Moderator
Posts: 5664
Joined: April 20th, 2008
Location: Megumi Island
Reputation: 110

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby raynebc » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:54 am

The best practice is always to create the tempo map before laying down notes, regardless of the input method. With the understanding that's how it should be done, it might not be too horrible to have a way to do it via the keyboard. Since EOF has a waveform graph and metronome, it shouldn't be necessary to make the tempo changes after placing notes. If nothing else, it provides more options until a MIDI based timing can be implemented.
User avatar
NewCreature
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: November 23rd, 2006
Location: Murray, KY
Reputation: 3
Contact:

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby NewCreature » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:42 am

If nothing else, it provides more options until a MIDI based timing can be implemented.

Agreed. I just wanted to explain why that feature never got finished. At least one Feedback user was wanting to migrate to EOF and use it like that. It just seemed to me like it would cause a lot of people to come to the forums complaining how it doesn't work like Feedback. While I haven't looked at the Feedback tutorials, I get the impression that they don't emphasize creating the tempo map first. That is what I'm concerned about.
"Stop putting so much stock in all of this stuff, live your life for those that you love." - Relient K
EOF - A Song Editor for Frets On Fire
Derp
User avatar
slashfan7964
Member
Posts: 5182
Joined: June 13th, 2009
Location: FoF-FF Retirement Home
Reputation: 8
Contact:

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby slashfan7964 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:51 pm

Great to see this is still supported! Keep up the good work even though I don't chart anymore.
Image

My Song Thread
Current Songs: 98
Secret Project in the Works! Check this signature for active updates!
My second band, Tetanus with Metallicaholic666 is recording a demo tape. Full album to follow.
f*cking ninja's...
User avatar
Asskickulater
Member
Posts: 2227
Joined: January 22nd, 2009
Reputation: 2

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby Asskickulater » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:30 pm

slashfan7964 wrote:Great to see this is still supported! Keep up the good work even though I don't chart anymore.


i see a ghost..
Image Image
blitzbob
Member
Posts: 100
Joined: August 9th, 2008
Reputation: 0

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby blitzbob » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:26 am

Midi Export: error note # was not turned off

Anyone know how to fix this?
Jpop fanatic
raynebc
Moderator
Posts: 5664
Joined: April 20th, 2008
Location: Megumi Island
Reputation: 110

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby raynebc » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:36 am

The surest bet would be to send me an affected project file.

Edit: My first guess is that your chart has an "[end]" text event that occurs during a note. If that's not the case, I can determine the cause when I look at the EOF file.
Derp
User avatar
slashfan7964
Member
Posts: 5182
Joined: June 13th, 2009
Location: FoF-FF Retirement Home
Reputation: 8
Contact:

Re: EOF 1.8b34 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby slashfan7964 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:55 pm

Asskickulater wrote:
slashfan7964 wrote:Great to see this is still supported! Keep up the good work even though I don't chart anymore.


i see a ghost..


Haha right. Interests changed, this changed in my life, further health issues, mom's health, work and otehr priorities have just taken over my life so no time to play anymore.
Image

My Song Thread
Current Songs: 98
Secret Project in the Works! Check this signature for active updates!
My second band, Tetanus with Metallicaholic666 is recording a demo tape. Full album to follow.
Jpop fanatic
raynebc
Moderator
Posts: 5664
Joined: April 20th, 2008
Location: Megumi Island
Reputation: 110

Re: EOF 1.8b35 - Now with Guitar Hero import

Postby raynebc » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:48 pm

Bigjoe5 wrote:Did you do this in b34? I'm pretty sure this is also what's causing my Panic Attack upgrade to go haywire, especially since EvinC apparently had no trouble with his using Ziggy's editor.

The functionality for storing and using the original tempo map during save is now ready to use. Based on the tempo map during export (such as the tempo change at about 11.5 seconds, which is 15ms away from the beat marker where it should be), it just looks like the original person who made this beat map at Harmonix was just being sloppy.

With that in mind, it's time for another beta release. Changes since 1.8b34:
*Added a user preference (Swap Pg Up/Dn seek controls) that reverses the roles of the page up and down keys (ie. allowing the Pg Up keyboard shortcuts to seek forward).
*Added logic to GH import so that the practice sections for QB format files can be loaded. Special thanks go to codemann8 for his help with this.
*Improved the "Adjust tempo for RBN" function to more reliably indicate when a tempo needs manual adjustment.
*Created a "Song>Disable expert+ bass drum" chart option that will omit any drum gems marked as double bass from the MIDIs during save. For RBN authors, this will make it easy to author the drum track once and create both a single and a double bass chart from it.
*Added a function to seek to the current fret catalog entry (Song>Seek>Catalog entry).
*Fixed a bug that could have caused parts of Guitar Hero files to not be found during import.
*Greatly improved the MIDI track storage functionality. During MIDI import, EOF will offer to store the MIDI's tempo map and beat track if mid beat tempo or time signature changes are found. This works around EOF's designed behavior of adding beats so mid beat changes can exist on beat markers, since for Rock Band upgrades, the upgrade's tempo map has to match that of the original chart to work correctly. Also, the timestamp of each stored event is permanently maintained in the same format (ASCII string) during all project save/load operations so there is no accuracy loss during timing conversions. Lastly, tracks that are stored automatically during MIDI import no longer have the MIDI delay applied to their timings, as this could cause them to lose sync with the chart if the MIDI delay was changed after import.
*Added logic to work around a bug in some QB format GH charts where the text for a lyic is defined out of alignment with its pitch. The text will be assigned to the closest pitch.
*Fixed a limitation with QB Guitar Hero import that could cause songs with long names (ie. longer than 20 characters) to fail to import.
*Fixed a minor bug where an undo state wasn't made if Enter was used to place gems at the current seek position (Classic and Hold input methods).
*Fixed various memory leaks.


EOF's behavior of inserting beats for mid beat tempo and time signature changes was the only known problem for using EOF to create harmony/pro guitar upgrades for Rock Band charts. The ability to store the original tempo map should fix that as long as it's working the way I expect it to. Please give it a try and let me know how it goes. I'll try to get the Feedback input method thrown together for the next beta.

Return to “Tutorials and Tools”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests