- Phase Shift -

[aander91]

So I mapped my midi drumset to the keyboard and drum keys, and they work outside of the game but go completely unresponsive inside the game.

Wat da eff.

[Metallicaholic666]

Weird, It works perfectly with my Roland TD-4.

[weirdpeople]

To take it further, if the game registers both a hammer on and a normal strummed note in the same hit window, the strummed note should be scored instead of the hammer on.

Yeah, that would be a good thing to do as well

[Asskickulater]

ya ya netplay blah blah.

Will it be possible for you guys can implement bass.ogg. I see that you guys only have support for what is offered in FoFiX, and bass.ogg isnt one of them. It would be so nice if you guys could do this

Amak, I do enjoy your disdain towards this project and you frivolous comments.
When you say bass.ogg I assume that you are referring to the Bass Pedal on the Drums as rhythm.ogg generally holds the Bass Guitar audio track.
And of course I could do this, it would take about 20 seconds of my time but why stop there?? I can add support for all the individual Drum Audio Tracks. Snare, High Hat, Crash Cymbal and Toms just like that available in GHWT and GH5. But would it ever be used?? There is hardly a clear standard on these things since your beloved FOFIX has ruined it for all the other games by its lack of support of these features. Most people in the older versions of FOFIX had to merge all the audio tracks into one as the performance increase was huge in a game that Flops Like A Fish!

Every day that passes that FOFIX does not support such features another 50 poorly made or ripped songs are created. PS has supported 5 Lane drums for ages now and not a single song has been created with support for it. 5 Lane support is NOT hard to implement. The same goes for Extended Sustains, Custom HOPO's, Slider Notes, Unlimited Players and Net Play for that matter. But until the FOFIX devs pull their fingers out, we'll be stuck with the same old format forever. I dread to think what will happen when Rockband Pro Songs start to surface but my guess is that they will be downsized and butchered to accommodate little old FOFIX.

If you make a game that trounces FOFIX then people will convert I hear you cry! But sadly this is not the case, people have been telling themselves that FOFIX is the greatest for so long they have actually convinced themselves that it's true. They have invested their time making mods and collating high scores that they now have a bear hug around it and they can’t let go even if they wanted to.
I find whole situation analogous to a woman who is beaten daily by her husband but that honestly believes that he will one day change and that it’s somehow her fault. I think you’ve all had too many black eyes to see that FOFIX is going nowhere and will continue to disappoint us all.

Don't let FOFIX tell you that you're not beautiful!

Thanks
David

p.s I'll add that I'm a little drunk so I'm sure this will be amusing to me in the morning.

THAT has needed to be said for a while now, its why Ive completely ditched fofix now, PS is growing while I have never even seen a release of fofix in the time ive been around, and ive been around for about a year or so, to add to the lack of support, fofix is the most unstable game i have EVER installed, runs perfectly fine one minute the next the thing is screwed up with no way of fixing it? PS has problems, but the problems are consistant... atleast i know that exiting the game in the middle of a song wont completely ruin the entire game... i really dont get why everyone clings to fofix so much...

anyway.. Im done now :P

even though you two know it already.. AMAZING job with PS so far!

*waits for the -15 karma im gonna get for this*

[weirdpeople]

ya ya netplay blah blah.

Will it be possible for you guys can implement bass.ogg. I see that you guys only have support for what is offered in FoFiX, and bass.ogg isnt one of them. It would be so nice if you guys could do this

Amak, I do enjoy your disdain towards this project and you frivolous comments.
When you say bass.ogg I assume that you are referring to the Bass Pedal on the Drums as rhythm.ogg generally holds the Bass Guitar audio track.
And of course I could do this, it would take about 20 seconds of my time but why stop there?? I can add support for all the individual Drum Audio Tracks. Snare, High Hat, Crash Cymbal and Toms just like that available in GHWT and GH5. But would it ever be used?? There is hardly a clear standard on these things since your beloved FOFIX has ruined it for all the other games by its lack of support of these features. Most people in the older versions of FOFIX had to merge all the audio tracks into one as the performance increase was huge in a game that Flops Like A Fish!

Every day that passes that FOFIX does not support such features another 50 poorly made or ripped songs are created. PS has supported 5 Lane drums for ages now and not a single song has been created with support for it. 5 Lane support is NOT hard to implement. The same goes for Extended Sustains, Custom HOPO's, Slider Notes, Unlimited Players and Net Play for that matter. But until the FOFIX devs pull their fingers out, we'll be stuck with the same old format forever. I dread to think what will happen when Rockband Pro Songs start to surface but my guess is that they will be downsized and butchered to accommodate little old FOFIX.

If you make a game that trounces FOFIX then people will convert I hear you cry! But sadly this is not the case, people have been telling themselves that FOFIX is the greatest for so long they have actually convinced themselves that it's true. They have invested their time making mods and collating high scores that they now have a bear hug around it and they can’t let go even if they wanted to.
I find whole situation analogous to a woman who is beaten daily by her husband but that honestly believes that he will one day change and that it’s somehow her fault. I think you’ve all had too many black eyes to see that FOFIX is going nowhere and will continue to disappoint us all.

Don't let FOFIX tell you that you're not beautiful!

Thanks
David

p.s I'll add that I'm a little drunk so I'm sure this will be amusing to me in the morning.

THAT has needed to be said for a while now, its why Ive completely ditched fofix now, PS is growing while I have never even seen a release of fofix in the time ive been around, and ive been around for about a year or so, to add to the lack of support, fofix is the most unstable game i have EVER installed, runs perfectly fine one minute the next the thing is screwed up with no way of fixing it? PS has problems, but the problems are consistant... atleast i know that exiting the game in the middle of a song wont completely ruin the entire game... i really dont get why everyone clings to fofix so much...

anyway.. Im done now :P

even though you two know it already.. AMAZING job with PS so far!

*waits for the -15 karma im gonna get for this*

yes that is true, but the reason for all of the instability's in fofix is the fact that there has been alot of careless developers in fofix's history. Stump and Blazin' are working on fixing some of the bad code they left, but they are just 2 people fixing a mess of bad code. But what im getting at here, yes fofix is feature lacking on some parts, but thats mainly because of the bad code that makes it a whole lot harder to implement things. Ongoing work is attempting to fix that, but it may take awhile.

there is just a few things with phase shift that arnt quite right yet for me to start using it. online play might make me use it slightly more, but things like the hopo thing i posted about and the uber fast failing really kill it for me because ill fail on songs i have never failed before, when played on fofix or rock band 2.

[evilbobthebob]

As far as I can tell, the failing isn't really "uber fast". I can pass almost all songs pretty comfortably, and I'm not that good. Although, getting six stars is another matter

Anyway, here's that summary of HOPOs after chords in Rock Band and Guitar Hero games. If there is anything incorrect here, I'm sure someone knows the right way.

Rock Band:

A note can be HOPO after a chord ONLY if that note is NOT in the preceding chord. For example, after a RB chord, G, Y and O can be HOPO but R or B cannot. Similarly, after a YBO chord, only G and R can be HOPO. A good example song for these methods is Pearl Jam - Alive. The only exception to this rule is a forced HOPO after a chord, in which case it can be any note or chord.

Guitar Hero:

The same as Rock Band EXCEPT if a note is the lowest in the chord, it CAN be HOPO. So, using the previous examples, after a RB chord, only B cannot be HOPO. G, R, Y and O can all be HOPO. For the YBO chord, G, R and Y can be HOPO.

I hope this clears it up. I am reasonably happy with either system, though I would prefer Rock Band's.

[thekiwimaddog]

A note can be HOPO after a chord ONLY if that note is NOT in the preceding chord. For example, after a RB chord, G, Y and O can be HOPO but R or B cannot. Similarly, after a YBO chord, only G and R can be HOPO. A good example song for these methods is Pearl Jam - Alive. The only exception to this rule is a forced HOPO after a chord, in which case it can be any note or chord.

I'm assuming that this only applies to single notes after a chord and not a chord after a chord?

Thanks
David

-- Edit: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:01 am --

Yeah, PS detects you as hitting the HOPO because you press down the fret before the note comes, then you strum so PS reads it as an over strum. At least, I assume that is what is happening.

I have a system to prevent this from happening and if you remeber you tested it when I was working on it. However, I may have broken it somewhere along the way. I'll take another look at the code and see if there are any obvious mistakes.

David

-- Edit: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:11 am --

Ok, I can't see anythign wrong with the code. I've giving it a test and I can't notice any problems with overstrum HOPO's at all. It might be a more in depth issue so if anyone can work out exactly what the issue is I'll fix it. I don't play guitar often so I'm not the best person to test it out.

David

[fatdog]

the uber fast failing really kill it for me because ill fail on songs i have never failed before, when played on fofix or rock band 2.

rock meter range was adjusted in 0.63 if anything it might be too relaxed now, still needs to be checked, so this shouldn't be an issue

[aander91]

Weird, It works perfectly with my Roland TD-4.

What, natively?

[Lysdestic]

Amak, I do enjoy your disdain towards this project and you frivolous comments.
When you say bass.ogg I assume that you are referring to the Bass Pedal on the Drums as rhythm.ogg generally holds the Bass Guitar audio track.
And of course I could do this, it would take about 20 seconds of my time but why stop there?? I can add support for all the individual Drum Audio Tracks. Snare, High Hat, Crash Cymbal and Toms just like that available in GHWT and GH5. But would it ever be used?? There is hardly a clear standard on these things since your beloved FOFIX has ruined it for all the other games by its lack of support of these features. Most people in the older versions of FOFIX had to merge all the audio tracks into one as the performance increase was huge in a game that Flops Like A Fish!

Every day that passes that FOFIX does not support such features another 50 poorly made or ripped songs are created. PS has supported 5 Lane drums for ages now and not a single song has been created with support for it. 5 Lane support is NOT hard to implement. The same goes for Extended Sustains, Custom HOPO's, Slider Notes, Unlimited Players and Net Play for that matter. But until the FOFIX devs pull their fingers out, we'll be stuck with the same old format forever. I dread to think what will happen when Rockband Pro Songs start to surface but my guess is that they will be downsized and butchered to accommodate little old FOFIX.

If you make a game that trounces FOFIX then people will convert I hear you cry! But sadly this is not the case, people have been telling themselves that FOFIX is the greatest for so long they have actually convinced themselves that it's true. They have invested their time making mods and collating high scores that they now have a bear hug around it and they can’t let go even if they wanted to.
I find whole situation analogous to a woman who is beaten daily by her husband but that honestly believes that he will one day change and that it’s somehow her fault. I think you’ve all had too many black eyes to see that FOFIX is going nowhere and will continue to disappoint us all.

Don't let FOFIX tell you that you're not beautiful!

Thanks
David

p.s I'll add that I'm a little drunk so I'm sure this will be amusing to me in the morning.

You know, I was curiously watching this project and eager to see what you guys came up with. But this, drunk or not, makes you come off as a total prick, and not in the way I usually respect, either.

And spare the drunk argument, a drunk man's words are an honest man's thoughts, after all.

To come on this forum pushing your precious closed-source game and then diss a project that, quite frankly, you wouldn't be here without is completely uncalled for. There was no reason for that. If that's the way you are going to act, I would highly suggest going elsewhere.

All these people here that suck you guys off release after release are the same people that used to moan in the alpha-testing thread that FoFiX wouldn't do this or that with their 500+ W.I.P. themes they were stealing writing. You'll soon find they like to ask for features, beg, whine, and moan. But when it comes to helping projects with something real, they are a bit lacking.

As a matter of fact, though I can't speak for Amak, it really seems to be he just wanted some (apparently easy to code) feature to allow him to utilize a separate ogg file for Bass. Doesn't seem that crazy, since it used to be common for a chart to have Rhythm Guitar and Lead. If that's how you are going to react to every simple feature request, let me assure you, as someone who spent a lot of time helping and alpha-testing FoFiX, you are in for a lot of typing, friend. And it won't be code, either.

I look back, and I'm disappointed. We have so many people branching off to do this or that to make the next great rhythm game clone. Usually, a one to two man team. You guys have gotten far, sure, but there is always something, something that ends it. Honestly, what pisses me off, and yeah, bums me out the most, is the fact that every last one of you guys could be helping improve FoFiX -- even if it was a complete re-write -- as opposed to going on about how your crap smells better.

Sure, FoFiX had a hard time supporting everything; I won't deny that, and no, I don't offer any good solutions either. But to completely knock how well it did handle all the different ways of doing things among the rhythm games with what little it had, is a completely rude move of you to make. I'd certainly respect you more if instead of knocking it you put your code where your mouth is and added to the damn thing.

But no, got to keep the glory of Phase-Shift and all the tools sucking it off, huh?

You dread to think what will happen when Pro Guitar comes out? (As if you could code that... oh I'm sure your pretentiousness speaks otherwise, but I'll wait until I see it.) I myself dread to think what will happen to your close-sourced program when you are done working on it. Knock FoFiX for having limited progress right now if you want, but don't deny the fact that their code -- no, our code -- is still out there, ready to be modified by anyone that doesn't want to keep the glory to themselves.

By the by, your beaten woman analogy is obnoxious, ludicrous, pushing sexist, and makes you look like a moron. Just sayin'. Step off your high horse, step back a bit, and don't be such an ass.

As an aside, before Death, Raph, Tibi, or whomever decides to delete this post, remember what program has kept this community going for so long, and at least allow someone to stand up for the tongue-lashing it received.

[thekiwimaddog]

And spare the drunk argument, a drunk man's words are an honest man's thoughts, after all.

I stand by what I said but in my ramblings I missed the point of my argument.

To come on this forum pushing your precious closed-source game and then diss a project that, quite frankly, you wouldn't be here without is completely uncalled for. There was no reason for that. If that's the way you are going to act, I would highly suggest going elsewhere.

There is nothing sacred about FOF, just because it was the first on the scene it doesn’t make it responsible for all that follows.

All these people here that suck you guys off release after release are the same people that used to moan in the alpha-testing thread that FoFiX wouldn't do this or that with their 500+ W.I.P. themes they were stealing writing. You'll soon find they like to ask for features, beg, whine, and moan. But when it comes to helping projects with something real, they are a bit lacking.

This is where I missed the point! I’m not annoyed with people’s suggestions and comments about the project. I’m annoyed that if I implement them they will never be used because FOF don’t support them.

As a matter of fact, though I can't speak for Amak, it really seems to be he just wanted some (apparently easy to code) feature to allow him to utilize a separate ogg file for Bass. Doesn't seem that crazy, since it used to be common for a chart to have Rhythm Guitar and Lead. If that's how you are going to react to every simple feature request, let me assure you, as someone who spent a lot of time helping and alpha-testing FoFiX, you are in for a lot of typing, friend. And it won't be code, either.

Amak has always been critical of this project and as such I’m not going to placate him. I would expect he would find that more insulting.

I look back, and I'm disappointed. We have so many people branching off to do this or that to make the next great rhythm game clone. Usually, a one to two man team. You guys have gotten far, sure, but there is always something, something that ends it. Honestly, what pisses me off, and yeah, bums me out the most, is the fact that every last one of you guys could be helping improve FoFiX -- even if it was a complete re-write -- as opposed to going on about how your crap smells better.

FOF is not worth saving. It needs to be completely re-written and is what I’m trying to do with Phase Shift.

Sure, FoFiX had a hard time supporting everything; I won't deny that, and no, I don't offer any good solutions either. But to completely knock how well it did handle all the different ways of doing things among the rhythm games with what little it had, is a completely rude move of you to make. I'd certainly respect you more if instead of knocking it you put your code where your mouth is and added to the damn thing.

The FOF devs have always maintained that they will not help a non open source project and as such I don’t have the motivation to fix it myself. Although, I am very much considering writing the PHP song database as PHP is quite familiar to me and also because it could work independent of FOF and maybe bring all the projects a little closer together.

But no, got to keep the glory of Phase-Shift and all the tools sucking it off, huh?

It’s a little hypercritical when you’re doing the same for FOF wouldn’t you say??

You dread to think what will happen when Pro Guitar comes out? (As if you could code that... oh I'm sure your pretentiousness speaks otherwise, but I'll wait until I see it.) I myself dread to think what will happen to your close-sourced program when you are done working on it. Knock FoFiX for having limited progress right now if you want, but don't deny the fact that their code -- no, our code -- is still out there, ready to be modified by anyone that doesn't want to keep the glory to themselves.

There is very little glory nowadays from FOF and I return to my point that FOF isn’t doing much lately. I have always said the source will be released to this game when I’ve achieved all I want from the project.


By the by, your beaten woman analogy is obnoxious, ludicrous, pushing sexist, and makes you look like a moron. Just sayin'. Step off your high horse, step back a bit, and don't be such an ass.

I was trying to be funny but I guess it’s not to everyone’s taste.

As an aside, before Death, Raph, Tibi, or whomever decides to delete this post, remember what program has kept this community going for so long, and at least allow someone to stand up for the tongue-lashing it received.

We can’t forget FOF if we tried. That was my point.

Thanks
David

[Lysdestic]

There is nothing sacred about FOF, just because it was the first on the scene it doesn’t make it responsible for all that follows.

Nothing sacred about FoF, you are indeed correct. But you have to keep in mind, when you use the forum that it is essentially responsible for to establish a user base and proceed to knock it just because you don't want to placate someone's simple request, then yes, you are stepping a bit too far.

And when you are here attempting to appeal to the users of FoF, then yes, it is responsible.

This is where I missed the point! I’m not annoyed with people’s suggestions and comments about the project. I’m annoyed that if I implement them they will never be used because FOF don’t support them.

But this is a different program, isn't it? FoF doesn't support 5-Lane drum tracks, does it? You have those? Why does it matter what FoF does and does not support? Sounds to me that you just wanted an excuse to berate poor Amak.

It's okay, I've been there too. He called me out once in front of two forums, he's a cool guy now though.

FOF is not worth saving. It needs to be completely re-written and is what I’m trying to do with Phase Shift.

And I respect that, believe me, I do. But you can't just develop some closed-source program, track it's progress on the forum from a program that came before yours (Which, really looks to be nothing more than banking on the fans of FoF to become your own) and then tear it a new one just because someone requests something or is a little critical of your own work.

The FOF devs have always maintained that they will not help a non open source project and as such I don’t have the motivation to fix it myself. Although, I am very much considering writing the PHP song database as PHP is quite familiar to me and also because it could work independent of FOF and maybe bring all the projects a little closer together.

Well, I mean... if it isn't open source... =\

My point was these countless clones and projects to make some awesome rhythm game keep failing. Mainly because it's one or two people that want to keep the code between themselves. Once they get bored or someone tells them something they don't want to hear it tends to fall apart.

I'm saying that all these projects would do much better -- using the code-base for FoFiX or not, hell, even Python be damned -- if they worked together under an open-sourced and cross-platform ideology.

It’s a little hypercritical when you’re doing the same for FOF wouldn’t you say??

No, it isn't. Two reasons. I'm not a developer for FoF or FoFiX. And two, FoFiX and FoF are both open source, so no glory to be hogged. ;)

There is very little glory nowadays from FOF and I return to my point that FOF isn’t doing much lately. I have always said the source will be released to this game when I’ve achieved all I want from the project.

You may not see much glory in it now. But don't you dare come to this forum in a shallow attempt to attain maximum users and then proceed to knock the program whose user-base you are attempting to take. People are free to choose what they want, but that makes you an ass for playing it that way.

And it's real convenient that you'll open the source, eventually, by the way. I dare say quite a few people from the FoFiX crowd wouldn't mind helping, were the code open in a way that they could.

Still, too late for that, I suppose.

I was trying to be funny but I guess it’s not to everyone’s taste.

It would have been hilarious if it made sense and fit the discussion at hand. It really came from left field.

We can’t forget FOF if we tried. That was my point.

Thanks
David

Then don't knock it just because you don't play well with liquor or because you have a problem with someone. The feature was perfectly justified, the excuse that FoF doesn't support it is BS.

My karma may be taking a hit for this, but at least someone stepped up. You can't just waltz in here, call FoF old news, take a dump on it, and then make an attempt to grab all of it's users. It's one thing to co-exist, but to berate it in the fashion that you did and with little provocation is pretty revolting, and a little telling, as well.

[evilbobthebob]

I think what he means is that nearly every song on this forum has been tailored to work within FoFiX. So, most songs with five lane drums have been cut down to four, for example. That is how FoFiX is holding back PS and other projects.

A note can be HOPO after a chord ONLY if that note is NOT in the preceding chord. For example, after a RB chord, G, Y and O can be HOPO but R or B cannot. Similarly, after a YBO chord, only G and R can be HOPO. A good example song for these methods is Pearl Jam - Alive. The only exception to this rule is a forced HOPO after a chord, in which case it can be any note or chord.

I'm assuming that this only applies to single notes after a chord and not a chord after a chord?

Thanks
David

Yep. Single notes only. Chords are only HOPO if they are forced on in the MIDI.

[Lysdestic]

I think what he means is that nearly every song on this forum has been tailored to work within FoFiX. So, most songs with five lane drums have been cut down to four, for example. That is how FoFiX is holding back PS and other projects.

That's fair enough, but am I mistaken or does Phase-Shift not already support five lanes on drums?

If it can do that, despite the lack of support in FoF/FoFiX, I don't see why it's such an issue to add support for a bass.ogg file that FoFiX doesn't support.

Isn't that the point, to give the users better usability and features? Isn't that how you really develop an audience -- beat the competition on features?

-- Edit --

i don't have any specific plans to end the fof thread, i want to keep this forum legit, so grey area content like songs and clone type themes i'd prefure to see over there, this site isn't just dedicated to PS it'll be a base for all of our projects, the fof forum can afford to be a bit more relaxed

That's great. You guys can't have it both ways. So you mean to tell me that nwru and raph can take the heat for any songs and themes made for your program, but you aren't willing to put yourself out there with your own forum?

That's rich. Knock the game because it's primitive and lacking, but take it's users while insulting the program. Diss the charts because they are held back by FoF/FoFiX, but still use their forum because you don't want the legal liability of hosting songs yourselves.

How... convenient, of you guys. Mad respect, really. Mad respect.

[thekiwimaddog]

I'm not going to go through and respond to each of your points again as you haven't said anything new and I don't have anything more to add. But to summerise all I'm trying to say here is that yes, I can add support for everything everyone wants, but the legacy of FOF which was once leading the way is now holding back all the other projects. And the official games, Rock Band and Guitar Hero are going to leave us behind unless we realise that FOF needs a heart transplant or to just die.

Thanks
David