Have Sega Make a New Console

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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby aander91 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:28 pm

jdawg wrote:
Rapt0r wrote:What kind of gameplay? Stealth? Seriously. What do MGS do that was revolutionary?


Sucker people into watching an hour long cut scene.


I <3 my MGS cutscenes. But I haven't played 3 yet. And why wasn't stealth revolutionary? Had any games done it previously? Plus the amount of little puzzles utilizing real-life applications, like the cigarettes and whatnot must've been pretty cool.
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby Rapt0r » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:15 pm

Castle Wolfenstein (not wolfenstein 3D) had a lot based on Stealth as did Metal Gear 1 and, moreso, 2 (which was not released in the US). Metal Gear 2: Snakes Revenge, however, was and is more action based than stealth but it's still there. Tenchu, which came out earlier in the year Metal Gear Solid was released in, was almost entirely based on Stealth. Thief, which came out a month or so after MGS, did soooo much more to the stealth genre than MGS did.
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby aander91 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:24 pm

Hmm, Tenchu sounds familiar. You got me then. I should check out that Tenchu then. I do really like the steath gameplay, just so long as it isn't Splinter Cell: Double Agent. God that game had terrible gameplay.
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby Tormann71 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:49 pm

aander91 wrote:Hmm, Tenchu sounds familiar. You got me then. I should check out that Tenchu then. I do really like the steath gameplay, just so long as it isn't Splinter Cell: Double Agent. God that game had terrible gameplay.

Splinter Cell: Conviction looks pretty sweet, the demo is really fun.
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby kevin1gamer » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:08 pm

aander91 wrote:
jdawg wrote:
Rapt0r wrote:What kind of gameplay? Stealth? Seriously. What do MGS do that was revolutionary?


Sucker people into watching an hour long cut scene.


I <3 my MGS cutscenes. But I haven't played 3 yet. And why wasn't stealth revolutionary? Had any games done it previously? Plus the amount of little puzzles utilizing real-life applications, like the cigarettes and whatnot must've been pretty cool.

I agree.

However, I do get those greater than and less than signs confused a lot.
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby omfgdrphl » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:28 pm

aander91 wrote:
jdawg wrote:
Rapt0r wrote:What kind of gameplay? Stealth? Seriously. What do MGS do that was revolutionary?


Sucker people into watching an hour long cut scene.


I <3 my MGS cutscenes. But I haven't played 3 yet. And why wasn't stealth revolutionary? Had any games done it previously? Plus the amount of little puzzles utilizing real-life applications, like the cigarettes and whatnot must've been pretty cool.

I remember I looked up a MGS3 walkthrough to see what the gameplay was like since I had heard so much about it, and I skipped through like 10 different parts and didn't get to any actual gameplay. XD
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby Rapt0r » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:12 am

Metal Gear Solid is just an interactive story. Each one gaining less and less actual gameplay and adding more and more videos. If you skip all the cutscenes and codecs, you'll blow through the game in 4 hours or so, easily. I'm not even talking about speed running either. My first MGS2 playthrough is 9 hours long. My third or so was only about 4 hours because I skipped all the videos. That's MORE THAN HALF the game spent watching movies. I'll admit some of that first playthrough was not knowing what to do, but most of it is pretty straight forward. Go here, do x, y unlocks, do z, go back to x, talk to a, etc.
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby crazy.neo » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:52 am

Rapt0r wrote:Metal Gear Solid is just an interactive story. Each one gaining less and less actual gameplay and adding more and more videos. If you skip all the cutscenes and codecs, you'll blow through the game in 4 hours or so, easily. I'm not even talking about speed running either. My first MGS2 playthrough is 9 hours long. My third or so was only about 4 hours because I skipped all the videos. That's MORE THAN HALF the game spent watching movies. I'll admit some of that first playthrough was not knowing what to do, but most of it is pretty straight forward. Go here, do x, y unlocks, do z, go back to x, talk to a, etc.

I don't think so, Tim.
MGS was revolutionary, I don't think anyone can deny this. It was not solely because of gameplay, though, MGS as a game is not all that. Controls are kind of flakey and imprecise and graphics were good at the time, but then again everything was. But, the marriage of a great and complex story and the direct, action oriented gameplay was new. Final Fantasy? Sure, it may have had a good story, but the games were always about generic fantasy technobabble crystal **** were you gave orders to sprites or badly drawn 3D models. MGS played and looked and felt like an interactive action movie. Not only that, but a movie you were given the role of an actor, by deciding how to dispose of the enemies and which characters to interact with, and how.

MGS2 is were the revolution is at. No one really seems to remember, but MGS2, at the time it came out, was one of the best looking games on the PS2, along with one of the only FPS/action and free roaming hybrids. The transition from MGS to MGS2 was made with such detail and finesse that no one could come back to MGS after playing 2. The story was 5* as well, **** after **** up until the end, a parody of itself and the first game, and then a parody of action games in general. It is initially one of these, then mocks itself, then becomes something else entirely. I still hold MGS2 very dear in my heart, and I don't think anyone can deny that it is one of the most replayable games out there, just getting dog tags, finishing the bonus stories in Substance and the hundreds of training missions... It's kind of overwhelming. But of course, everyone focus on "LULZ RAIDEN?! MOAR LIEK GAYDEN LOLOLOL" and MGS3 completely overshadowed it, leaving most people to think that MGS2 was the weakest link in the series, when in fact I find it to be either the very best or close to it.
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby timfoss » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:01 am

crazy.neo wrote:
Rapt0r wrote:Metal Gear Solid is just an interactive story. Each one gaining less and less actual gameplay and adding more and more videos. If you skip all the cutscenes and codecs, you'll blow through the game in 4 hours or so, easily. I'm not even talking about speed running either. My first MGS2 playthrough is 9 hours long. My third or so was only about 4 hours because I skipped all the videos. That's MORE THAN HALF the game spent watching movies. I'll admit some of that first playthrough was not knowing what to do, but most of it is pretty straight forward. Go here, do x, y unlocks, do z, go back to x, talk to a, etc.

I don't think so, Tim.
MGS was revolutionary, I don't think anyone can deny this. It was not solely because of gameplay, though, MGS as a game is not all that. Controls are kind of flakey and imprecise and graphics were good at the time, but then again everything was. But, the marriage of a great and complex story and the direct, action oriented gameplay was new. Final Fantasy? Sure, it may have had a good story, but the games were always about generic fantasy technobabble crystal **** were you gave orders to sprites or badly drawn 3D models. MGS played and looked and felt like an interactive action movie. Not only that, but a movie you were given the role of an actor, by deciding how to dispose of the enemies and which characters to interact with, and how.

MGS2 is were the revolution is at. No one really seems to remember, but MGS2, at the time it came out, was one of the best looking games on the PS2, along with one of the only FPS/action and free roaming hybrids. The transition from MGS to MGS2 was made with such detail and finesse that no one could come back to MGS after playing 2. The story was 5* as well, **** after **** up until the end, a parody of itself and the first game, and then a parody of action games in general. It is initially one of these, then mocks itself, then becomes something else entirely. I still hold MGS2 very dear in my heart, and I don't think anyone can deny that it is one of the most replayable games out there, just getting dog tags, finishing the bonus stories in Substance and the hundreds of training missions... It's kind of overwhelming. But of course, everyone focus on "LULZ RAIDEN?! MOAR LIEK GAYDEN LOLOLOL" and MGS3 completely overshadowed it, leaving most people to think that MGS2 was the weakest link in the series, when in fact I find it to be either the very best or close to it.


Please don't tell me you were trying to compare MGS with FF. They are two completely different genre's it's impossible for one to be better than the other. It's like comparing Blade to Twilight, sure they're both vampire movies but two completely different genres. Dammit, now I wanna see a cross-over of Blade and Twilight. That would be **** epic!
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby Rapt0r » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:02 am

You didn't really refute any of my points and strengthen my story based argument. Also, my points about being revolutionary were only referring to stealth.

Try again.
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby crazy.neo » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:28 am

timfoss wrote:
crazy.neo wrote:
Rapt0r wrote:Metal Gear Solid is just an interactive story. Each one gaining less and less actual gameplay and adding more and more videos. If you skip all the cutscenes and codecs, you'll blow through the game in 4 hours or so, easily. I'm not even talking about speed running either. My first MGS2 playthrough is 9 hours long. My third or so was only about 4 hours because I skipped all the videos. That's MORE THAN HALF the game spent watching movies. I'll admit some of that first playthrough was not knowing what to do, but most of it is pretty straight forward. Go here, do x, y unlocks, do z, go back to x, talk to a, etc.

I don't think so, Tim.
MGS was revolutionary, I don't think anyone can deny this. It was not solely because of gameplay, though, MGS as a game is not all that. Controls are kind of flakey and imprecise and graphics were good at the time, but then again everything was. But, the marriage of a great and complex story and the direct, action oriented gameplay was new. Final Fantasy? Sure, it may have had a good story, but the games were always about generic fantasy technobabble crystal **** were you gave orders to sprites or badly drawn 3D models. MGS played and looked and felt like an interactive action movie. Not only that, but a movie you were given the role of an actor, by deciding how to dispose of the enemies and which characters to interact with, and how.

MGS2 is were the revolution is at. No one really seems to remember, but MGS2, at the time it came out, was one of the best looking games on the PS2, along with one of the only FPS/action and free roaming hybrids. The transition from MGS to MGS2 was made with such detail and finesse that no one could come back to MGS after playing 2. The story was 5* as well, **** after **** up until the end, a parody of itself and the first game, and then a parody of action games in general. It is initially one of these, then mocks itself, then becomes something else entirely. I still hold MGS2 very dear in my heart, and I don't think anyone can deny that it is one of the most replayable games out there, just getting dog tags, finishing the bonus stories in Substance and the hundreds of training missions... It's kind of overwhelming. But of course, everyone focus on "LULZ RAIDEN?! MOAR LIEK GAYDEN LOLOLOL" and MGS3 completely overshadowed it, leaving most people to think that MGS2 was the weakest link in the series, when in fact I find it to be either the very best or close to it.


Please don't tell me you were trying to compare MGS with FF. They are two completely different genre's

That's why I wasn't comparing gameplay, only story. There are several RPG's whose setting isn't always the same recycled ****.

You didn't really refute any of my points and strengthen my story based argument.

Well, you did say that the game was of short duration without the cutscenes, while I argue that the cutscenes are an integral part of the game. Sure, you skipped them on your second playthrough, but you didn't skip them on your first because, why should you? You were playing the game just to see the next one! I think it's kind of unfair to go back and say "well without cutscenes this is only 4 hours" when on your original playthough (ie, the one that COUNTS) you were watching them attentively, and when they are an integral part of the game (since, like you said, MGS is an interactive movie). I also argue that since the game offers extensive replayability, the only way the second playthough lasts a couple of hours is if you want to. I mean seriously...
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby Rapt0r » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:25 pm

Believe me, I'm am in NO WAY saying it's a bad game. I love MGS2 and it's probably one of my favorite games I own for my Xbox. GOD DAMN YOU NO BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY ON THE 360! I'D BE PLAYING YOU SO MUCH MORE! I was only making the arguement that the game is primarily cutscenes. As you said yourself, the game is about the story and it is a damn good story.
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby triplejc » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:23 pm

what the hell is going on in this thread?
since you all turned it from sega to MGS.
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Re: Have Sega Make a New Console

Postby triplejc » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:53 pm

you mean LOZOOT?
i know it's amazing right?
i wish they would make a sequel to majora's mask with those style of graphics, twilight princess was far too dark for my taste. :/
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