RF-mod-4 Discussion - Questions, suggestions, whining

[Tioso]

but for example: I want to play Hangar 18 on bass. the mod don't ask which part I want to play, it enters the game normally, and I am "forced" to play with guitar, I can't choose which part I want to play...

the files inside the song folder are:

-guitar.ogg
-song.ogg
-rhythm.ogg
-notes.mid
-song.ini

[YMS]

but for example: I want to play Hangar 18 on bass. the mod don't ask which part I want to play, it enters the game normally, and I am "forced" to play with guitar, I can't choose which part I want to play...

the files inside the song folder are:

-guitar.ogg
-song.ogg
-rhythm.ogg
-notes.mid
-song.ini

Did you alter the notes.mid, e.g. by changing the song's BPM using the in-game editor? By that you would have destroyed the bass part, which works fine for me.

Otherwise I don't know what's the problem.

[Tioso]

thanks mannnn
I've found the error, it's because I've changed the BPM to 150
now I have to download the song again, but it's ok ;D

thanks =)

[bakerer]

ive gotten the notes to work okay but it seems that the mod takes away alot of vital hammer ons and pull offs that were and are supposed to to be in the song! where are they going? lol

[Rogue_F]

haha, i cant blame rogue if he is trying to beat herings mod reply record... heh.

thought it makes me wonder.. i know damn well rogue probably could've coded everything hering did and yet he didn't... it just makes me wonder why.

If you combine all the RF-mod postings they far outstrip herings. He just made 1 thread for all his versions.

As for why I didn't do them? Well, there are plenty of things on my TODO list and I'm not getting to them. I'd rather not do everything, that's tiring. For example YMS's lyrics mod was on my TODO list for a logn time. It's not a complex mod, but it was low priority and never got done.

I was glad to have him do it and then integrate it later. Worked pretty well.

-Alex

[whatakevin]

i personally dont want to upgrade untill Capo's mod gets ported up, that way GH can port up and Hering can. id say those should be your 1st priority. "RFCGHH-Mod"

[Rogue_F]

i personally dont want to upgrade untill Capo's mod gets ported up, that way GH can port up and Hering can. id say those should be your 1st priority. "RFCGHH-Mod"

The note margin changes in C-mod are borderline cheating. If you can 't play without it, then you just suck.

THe max cap of 110bpm to keep the hit margins open are way too huge. for a 150bpm song it makes it 50% easier.

Once I figure out a way to penalize for using the easier setting I may implement it. But as it stands right now, It's highly unfair.

-Alex

[Rogue_F]

I have made a few patches for rf_mod4, version 4.12 there :
http://www.rainemu.com/html/archive/tux/fof/
rf4_accents : remove the warning about non international characters

This I won't really consider a patch. You're changing the author's name. It only gives you a warning when you are compiling the byte compiled files

rf4_fail_notes : when you start a song and do not play the first notes, you hear them anyway with rf4 ! With this patch the notes are missed as they should be.

I'll take a look at integrating this. I have a fix in 4.13 for one of the other bugs reported, but I do sort of like hearing the song without playing. Though this is not a RF-4 patch, it's really a FoF one.

rf4_lyrics : fix the lyrics mod which didn't work in rf_mod 4.12

THere's nothing wrong with the lyrics mod. You just did not follow the direction. This patch is wasteful it should not be a global option to turn this on and off. In 4.13 i have some stuff that does not require the song.ini variable, but I am not sure if that's a good way to do it. It requires more file access to check

rf4_no_guitar : when there is no guitar.ogg don't display a stupid message error, and use (0.5*songVolume) when you miss some notes (otherwise you don't hear anything if missvolume = 0).

I'm not sure what bug this is. It's not present in the windows version. It may be a problem if you're not using the ogg streaming, or perhaps the file detection which may be win32 specific. If there's no song.ogg it's supposed to use missvolume. if missvolume = 0, you're not supposed to hear anything. If it is a bug, this isn't the correct fix.

rf4_restart : fix the crash in linux when choosing "apply new settings" in a menu

I'll add this if it doesn't break windows

rf4_inputs : move the "alternate controller" setting to the keys configuration menu, so that you can see more easily what you get.

This is not a bug, those do not belong in the configuration menu, all the RF-mod specific stuff belongs in the RF-mod settings menu item.

rf4_volume : the guitar volume setting was completely ignored while playing a song, and the part being played was always set to full volume when playing a note correctly, often creating distortion when playing a multi-track gh2 song. Now the guitar volume works again as it should, and playing a note correctly puts its part volume to what its settings say.

THis is just a porting issue from RF-mod-3.5. IN 1.1.X there was no volume setting separate so my stuff did not take that into account.

Someone else pointed this out earlier (might have been you) so I have that fix in 4.13 as well.

-Alex

[Capo]

The note margin changes in C-mod are borderline cheating. If you can 't play without it, then you just suck.

THe max cap of 110bpm to keep the hit margins open are way too huge. for a 150bpm song it makes it 50% easier.

Wrong on so many levels that I won't even bother to explain again. But please don't refer to people who can't play without my mod as people who suck. I can easily name many of them that can kick your ass (and mine too) in both GH and FoF. It is actually the other way around: people who play on easier difficulties or that just installed fof that don't seem to notice the faults in the gameplay.

[poison]

The note margin changes in C-mod are borderline cheating. If you can 't play without it, then you just suck.

THe max cap of 110bpm to keep the hit margins open are way too huge. for a 150bpm song it makes it 50% easier.

Wrong on so many levels that I won't even bother to explain again. But please don't refer to people who can't play without my mod as people who suck. I can easily name many of them that can kick your ass (and mine too) in both GH and FoF. It is actually the other way around: people who play on easier difficulties or that just installed fof that don't seem to notice the faults in the gameplay.

if i made a mod that regulated board speed, it'd be this:
easy and medium = 100 bpm
hard and expert = 150 bpm

[Capo]

if i made a mod that regulated board speed, it'd be this:
easy and medium = 100 bpm
hard and expert = 150 bpm

Suggestion are welcome, specially if you come from a Guitar Hero background, but you might probably want to use other thread (like mine) for that.

[Rogue_F]

The note margin changes in C-mod are borderline cheating. If you can 't play without it, then you just suck.

THe max cap of 110bpm to keep the hit margins open are way too huge. for a 150bpm song it makes it 50% easier.

Wrong on so many levels that I won't even bother to explain again. But please don't refer to people who can't play without my mod as people who suck. I can easily name many of them that can kick your ass (and mine too) in both GH and FoF. It is actually the other way around: people who play on easier difficulties or that just installed fof that don't seem to notice the faults in the gameplay.

You're right I wouldn't want to call them all blanket 'suck', mostly just whatakevin there.

But, I do standby the statement that the opening up of the hitmargins to artificially high is highly unfair and I would say borderline cheating.

The max cap you have (110 bps) is SUPER slow. Smoke on the water has a higher BPS than that and it's very very slow.


typical songs are 150bps and higher. At 150 BPS, the stock FoF (1.1.X and 1.2.X) hit margins are about 105ms early and late. With the 110bps cap, that changes the hit margins to 156ms. That's over a 50% increase on both early and late (late is the one that makes most of the difference though).

Anything faster than 150bps has even smaller hit margins and the percentage it's easier goes way up.

Now that being said do I think the stock FoF ones are good? No. They seriously don't work very well when things are fast (180bps+) But I think a 110bps cap is WAY to easy. 150 may be more realistic as that's 'average'


Though I think a better formula for calculating the margins is probably the right thing to do. I will likely end up with a few different settings.

'FoF' (stock)
Lenient (not the same kind of easy as Capos, but similar, and will scale with BPM
Medium (about the same as current FoF without the high BPM penalties)
Strict (harder than current FoF but scales more reasonably with BPM)

Easy I doubt will be the same 110bps cap, I might include a 'Capo' setting as well that gives that same value.

THe thing I need to figure out is how to make that reflect in the scores, or charts, etc. I've already had some discussions about how to reflect this in the charts.

Obviously someone who is playing a song with lenient hit margins is not playing at the same level as someone who is playing with strict ones

Not just this, but also things like 2 note chords, variablebpm disable, type of hopo, what mods are being used and other things affecting gameplay.

While I'm not talking about normalizing the score....I don't think that's possible. I'm talking about recording the data about the conditions under which the game was played.

-Alex

[Capo]

ok lets begin with why 110 bpM. A limit was needed, indeed, so I chose a song that had a regular speed but would still register my strums at the right time with an acceptable margin of error: cowboys from hell (it has like ~111 bpm). So what do you mean, that cfh is an easy song? Or that its hit margins are WAY too easy? Hit margins shouldn't dictate the difficulty of the song, it should actually be a fixed margin for all the songs like in GH, but I'd rather not be that drastic. I even asked in my thread about the 110 limit, nobody complained.

[VIRUSX900]

is there anyway to fix the loadtimes? because it takes 5 minutes to load it up. when i open it it says loading and it plays the music but it takes 5 minutes and then another 3 to show the songs in my songs folder.

[Rogue_F]

ok lets begin with why 110 bpM. A limit was needed, indeed, so I chose a song that had a regular speed but would still register my strums at the right time with an acceptable margin of error: cowboys from hell (it has like ~111 bpm). So what do you mean, that cfh is an easy song? Or that its hit margins are WAY too easy? Hit margins shouldn't dictate the difficulty of the song, it should actually be a fixed margin for all the songs like in GH, but I'd rather not be that drastic. I even asked in my thread about the 110 limit, nobody complained.

I have scoured scorehero to see if there's any definitive answer on that subject, and I have not seen it.

If I can find that'd definitely use it for the 'GH' setting.

I'm also not entirely convinced that GH uses a fixed setting.

I'm sure when you asked about the 110 limit no one complained because no one knew the impact, and also, 110 makes it much easier, and people like easier.


If the note speed changes per difficulty I'd imagine that the margins may change too. I'm not a super big fan of changing those for FoF though because as we know lots of people make songs and use 'amazing' because it's the default not because the song is.

I'm also not entirely convinced that the margins based upon the BPM is the right way to go either. I'd like something that's good and fair but does increase with difficulty.

One of the changes I am planning on making is more of a DDR style change in making things more than just a hit...but great, good, ok, bad kind of thing depending how long away from the actual note you are (within the hit margin).

Maybe what I can do is leave the hit margin fixed, but change where the values for great, good ok and bad are. Again I have not thought about that one too much so it's just an idea at this point.

-Alex