Pitched lyric tutorial

Postby **raynebc** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:15 am

Try going into your OS' volume control settings and see if the MIDI volume is high enough to hear (ie. "SW Synth" in Windows).

As for lyric timing, it's your decision. It probably won't matter in the end as FoFiX won't care.

ryanpanties · Postby **ryanpanties** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:55 pm

raynebc wrote:If you can, send me the converted MIDI so I can examine what the Feedback-originated MIDI chart would look like.

Did you look at the midi that I posted by any chance? Even if you've decided that the rough-draft/final-copy-through-lots-of-semi-related-and-reasonably-buggy-programs-method is all that you are interested in, I'd at least love to hear what your reaction was to a midi-backed example of the first half of my potential 2-step process. A program would simply need to move those note patterns from a predetermined (and currently supported in db and eof) track to part vocals while adding pitch and syllable information sequentially from a text file or a fill-in-the-blank format. Lyrics really are sung on the beats the vast majority of the time.... just like guitar is on the beats the vast majority of the time. The ability to copy/paste patterns is a giant advantage for a verse/chorus/verse song of any length at all, and this method would allow for familiar charting of vocal patterns (eof or db) and the same accuracy we are all used to having on guitar. Imagine trying to chart "American Pie" (longest verse/chorus/verse song that comes to mind) with each of these two methods, and the amazingly huge time difference that would be involved.

I suppose your lack of response is probably a lack of interest, which is fair enough, but a quick comment on the midi I shared would be much appreciated.

Postby **raynebc** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:46 pm

ryanpanties wrote:Even if you've decided that the rough-draft/final-copy-through-lots-of-semi-related-and-reasonably-buggy-programs-method is all that you are interested in...

There's no need for that much sarcasm. FYI, I haven't really jumped back into coding so I could take a break and play some video games for a change. I have been feeling somewhat burned out on programming of late and I just wanted to take it easy until I tackle the large changes you're requesting. I didn't plan on this long of a break, but it won't be forever.

In the mean time, try out the lyric charting capability in the latest EOF and see if you like where it's going. Right now, it's pitch-less and duration-less, but it's still quite a big addition to the program.

G3n0c1de · Postby **G3n0c1de** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:10 pm

raynebc wrote:Try going into your OS' volume control settings and see if the MIDI volume is high enough to hear (ie. "SW Synth" in Windows).

As for lyric timing, it's your decision. It probably won't matter in the end as FoFiX won't care.

Hmm, I found the control for the SW Synth volume. Even when turned up to full, the midi piano still would not play. I also opened up ANVIL and played around with the SW Synth volume, the midi piano accordingly went mute and got louder. So it appears to be a problem with YASS... Tried reinstalling it. No dice.

---- EDIT ----

Well, I was sort of able to figure it out without the MIDI piano. The 'click' sound that it makes over every note when the piano is turned off are actually in tune with the note, so while it's not as distinctive as a piano, you can still listen to that for notes. I also used my own piano to figure out the exact notes and then I lined them up. I wanted to ask a few things before trying to convert it. After converting it and putting it in the midi, if I find a mistake, and correct it, can I just convert the new file and it will just overwrite the old part_VOCAL track with the correction? Also, is there a way to make some lyrics be 'talking' parts, where no pitch is involved?

Postby **raynebc** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:19 pm

ryanpanties wrote:I would suggest that if phrase markers are needed they be charted as another color, of course with no duration. I did not include that yet, but it would be a matter of seconds to add.

After looking at the MIDI and thinking about how to implement this, I feel that phrase markers will be necessary. However it would probably be fine to have the markers in the input lyrics.

ryanpanties · Postby **ryanpanties** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:12 am

raynebc wrote:In the mean time, try out the lyric charting capability in the latest EOF and see if you like where it's going. Right now, it's pitch-less and duration-less, but it's still quite a big addition to the program.

I definitely will. That does sound like a rather large step in the right direction for EOF.

raynebc wrote:After looking at the MIDI and thinking about how to implement this, I feel that phrase markers will be necessary. However it would probably be fine to have the markers in the input lyrics.

You're right, that would be very practical. In fact it probably makes much more sense to place phrase markers while referencing the lyrics. I apologize for the sarcasm, I was just looking forward to your response to the midi and starting to wonder if it was coming. :blush:

Postby **raynebc** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:17 pm

I should be able to write the code to import the timings from that MIDI, but I haven't thought of a good way to identify which MIDI track needs to be imported. I won't be able to automatically assume a specific instrument track will always contain vocal rhythm. Without requiring that the MIDI has been edited so that the track name is called something meaningful like "PART VOCAL RHYTHM", it may be best that the vocal rhythm MIDI has just that track and no others. Then the first instrument track found will be imported as vocal rhythm.

As for the input lyrics, let me know if you've created one that I can test with. There's no definition for what this format would be, but for the sake of being similar with other formats, perhaps it could be something like:

pitch (tab or other whitespace) lyric
...
- (hyphen to denote an end of lyric phrase)

The vocal pitch could possibly be a number reflecting the appropriate MIDI note. If you want to use note names instead (ie. A, B, C...), then an octave number may be useful but shouldn't be necessary as first octave can be assumed and it should still work.

ryanpanties · Postby **ryanpanties** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:22 pm

I hadn't put together a lyrics input file yet, but I'd be happy to. I'll start on it tonight as soon as i get the free time. Either letters or numbers would be equally plausible in my book. I'll start gathering an input file for that midi using note names, and if you decide numbers make more sense it should be an easy switch, I'm just a bit unsure how the notes should be numbered.

I see what you're getting at as far as location of the note pattern goes.... maybe offering the ability to input the location of the vocal note pattern at the top of the lyrics input file would make sense? (ex. "midi = G1" would tell it to look in the main guitar track under easy[supaeasy] difficulty), and nothing input there could either assume it's looking for a PART VOCAL RHYTHM track because somebody knows how to use a midi editor, or for the first instrument track encountered, as you mentioned.

I would also be happy to begin charting a few additional songs in this manner for the sake of test subjects if you are seriously considering implementing this conversion. I'll do my best to have an input text file for that Deathcab song up by tomorrow, followed by another example or two soon.

Edit: Does the format in the spoiler look roughly like you expected it to?

"C#1" is an octave higher than "C#", and "C#2" would be an octave higher than "C#1". I wasn't sure how to best represent pitch changes within a syllable... I had them charted with a note at each pitch change, so i included text for each note even at the risk of being a bit awkward, at least for this first rough draft (see "m-ou-th" at the end of phrase 6 and "say-ay-ay" further down). "-*" represents the beginning of a star power phrase, with the star power ending at the next phrase marker. Please tell me anything I may be overlooking, you are definitely more familiar with our goal end result than I am.

It was actually rather fun plinking the vocals out on the keyboard (musical keyboard, not computer) to verify the notes. I went ahead and grabbed a few images from online in preparation for writing a "for dummies"-style tutorial on determining pitch using a piano/keyboard, although this should come rather easily to anyone familiar with music theory, and does in the end depend on having an ear for pitch.

Also, not applicable to this song, but how should we plan on representing pitchless in the lyrics input file? As simple as "#" instead of a pitch? Was going to do a partially talky/screamy song as a second test chart.

Postby **raynebc** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:06 pm

Sorry, I didn't see this earlier because edits don't bump the page. I'll take a look and get back with you.

Thinking ahead:
A pitch shift should be something like:

Code: Select all

(pitch) +

as it would be similar to Rock Band pitch shifts. Splitting up a single syllable word like "mo" "u" "th" would work, but it wouldn't look as clean as the plus signs.

As you suggest, pitchless syllables could be something like:

Code: Select all

## (lyric)

Or just:

Code: Select all

# (lyric)

Your notation for a star power phrase looks like it work work nice and neat. I'll have to try YASS on another computer to see if I can get it to work, as it has a nice system for playing audio and using a MIDI keyboard to set and test pitch (for those of us without a physical keyboard). Please let me know if I should use these as the pitch values:
http://tomscarff.110mb.com/midi_analyse ... ctaves.htm

ryanpanties · Postby **ryanpanties** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:14 pm

I guess I should have bumped the thread. Glad you caught the edit. :smile:

Pitch shifts: That method of showing a pitch shift is definitely the neater alternative. I like it.

Pitchless: ## sounds like a plan.

Pitch values: sure, any number system that works well for you sounds fine to be. I'll probably just arrange the lyrics file in notepad using the notation that makes most sense to me, then use find/replace to replace the letters with numerical values.

So that would transform the lyrics I posted into this, if I'm understanding correctly.

Postby **raynebc** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:53 pm

The only other suggestion I have at this point is to use hyphens between syllables in the same word, such as:

set-
tl-
ing

This is also a convention used in Rock Band for partial words.

ryanpanties · Postby **ryanpanties** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:53 pm

That makes perfect sense, just hadn't quite occurred to me yet somehow, hehe.

Can't wait for this to be implemented. :2thumbsup:

Edit:
Got another song prepared this way done. Minus The Bear - Thanks For The Killer Game Of Crisco Twister (expert guitar&drums, vocal notes in Easy Guitar track)

There's a vocals.txt file in that rar download, or a spoiler version posted here for the sake of announcing progress. :smile:

Postby **raynebc** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:57 pm

I've been picking at the new logic, I hope to get it ready in the near future. For the sake of simplicity, I don't believe it will be necessary to force any one fret number to be used for the vocal rhythm. Did you want me to code for MIDI pitch numbers, or should I allow for note names (ie. C1) as well?

ryanpanties · Postby **ryanpanties** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:03 pm

I've got numbers taped to my keyboard by now, hehe. Unless it's an easy addition, I'd just stick with the midi numbers. They were pretty easy to get used to. Played some on the piano at a friends house last night and was already finding myself thinking the numbers along with the notes.

Can I ask how sure you are that this will happen? I could happily start piling up vocals if you're feeling fairly positive this is coming. :thumbup:

Also, I wrote a much much more logical walkthrough than the one I pmed you that works through the process with two windows open instead of trying to isolate the steps. :blush:

Postby **raynebc** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:27 am

Give me this week to work with the sample files. I don't want you spending lots of time on this until I can show that it will work in a usable way. One thing that worries me is that with this method of vocal charting, it will be easy to end up with the incorrect number of vocal beats versus syllables because both halves of the work are done separately from each other. If the input rhythm and lyric files didn't match up with the same number of entries, what would be a good way to present that problem to the user?

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